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REGIONAL NEWS & INVESTIGATIONS
PO BOX 161702, Duluth MN 55816
Email contact@duluthmonitor.com
Phone (218) 391 - 8791
- All rights reserved.
You know Minnesota has 2 New Flyer bus factories in Minnesota. (St. Cloud, and Crookston) New Flyer builds electric buses. Why doesnt DTA demo a New Flyer and test it through the the winter? Then if there are issues they would have a rep in state at all times.
That would have been nice back when they received the funding for this project, 2015. The electric field is advancing so fast as you know, that by the time you receive a bus better systems are out there. My hope is that when we go to look at electric again the engineering of electric buses has settled down so we can get more reliable tested vehicles. This project was a sort of a test or pilot project.
How long has Flyer bus been producing E-Buses? Wouldnt it be great if they provided a bus for the DTA. We are a great city to test them out in but there are complications in testing a bus than just having them.
Your average car emits 4 tons CO2 per annum in regular use.
A million cars emit 4 million tons CO2 per annum in regular use.
A coal fired electric plant emits about 12 million tons CO2 per annum.
So…take a million cars off the road forever and you offset one third of a coal fired electric plant’s emissions.
China has been bringing a new coal fired electric plant onstream every 5 days. Get out of your 3 million cars so it can run for the next 40 years.
Yet a diesel engine is required on electric buses for heat. A diesel engine that does not have to meet carbon emission regulations because it is generating heat only, not for propulsion. Till a battery is developed to hold enough energy for the task, electric buses solve nothing.
You are ignoring that about 50% of the grid’s electricity is still generated by fossil fuels. Due to that, in Minnesota, most electric vehicles will generate the same carbon footprint as a comparable sized internal combustion engine vehicle. Electric vehicles should be called “external combustion engines.”
Interesting that there are no carbon footprint comparisons (that I’ve found) on electric buses vs. diesel buses. Why? Probably because mandates for electric vehicles are political, not science or engineering based.
Nothing wrong with having a cool electric vehicle if you can afford it (and have the infrastructure to charge it without burning down your garage), but don’t claim you are reducing your carbon footprint (in Minnesota and most states).
Why must we switch to electric transportation? Why can’t you leave things alone? You are forcing people who do not want to own an electric vehicle to buy one. If it is such a big deal to drive something like that, then why don’t we just go back to the horse & buggy? Electric cars are deadly cars.
Who is for forcing you to buy an electric car? Electric cars are currently expensive and not readily available. The vast majority of personal cars and trucks for sale are powered by gas. Currently, electric cars are being chosen mainly people who have extra money to spend on a car. One of the most anticipated releases of the new truck lineup has been a hybrid Ford Bronco. Why? Because it is a cool and fun vehicle. Some people think these new electric vehicle options will save them a ton of money by not having to buy so much gas. It’s OK that you prefer not to buy one. No one is forcing you. In the next 20 years I do not expect to see electric cars become the norm and they will not be the only choice for a very long time, if ever. And deadly? More deadly than a gas car? Most modern electric cars on the market are very safe. The Tesla Model 3 has a 5 star safety rating and in 2018 was determined by the NHTSA to have the lowest probability of injury of any vehicle tested going back to 2011.
Government policy is shaping our decisions by intentionally forcing gas prices up in many ways. This in turn makes the electric cars more competitive and in some cases viable. Likewise Government grants have been directed towards battery buses and not diesel which again swings the decision from what works best to what costs less – even though it is entirely artificially construed.
Trade-in value of an electric car is awful. I picked up a 3 year old VW e-Golf for less than 25% of its new price. It costs $8.00 to charge it and gas in CA is now $3.75-$5.75 per gallon (depending if you are in LA or the boonies).
“Trade-in value of an electric car is awful”? Then why has my local dealer sent me at least four mailings asking me to trade in my 8-year-old Chevy Volt? When the price of gas goes up and used cars are in short supply, they are very attractive. I’ve been offered $ over book.
Without energy policies that raise gas prices and subsidies for electric cars, the adoption rate would be far lower.
I am a bus operator for a transit agency in a midwest city. Our fixed route fleet is about 130 buses. Our agency put eight Proterra buses into service starting October 2020. The charging system for the buses required a major retrofit to one of our garages and took around six mouths to complete. The rollout was problematic to say the least. All the buses had electrical issues from the start… nothing major, just inconvenient and consistent. From a driver perspective, the jury is still out. We experienced the same battery issues in cold weather that were mentioned in this article. Many of the operators hate them. Most are neutral at best.. I haven’t heard a single “I love those buses.” I can say however that I find them immensely superior to our other buses in snow/ice conditions. They truly are amazingly stable in the traction department. (compared to New Flyer Excelsior specifically). No bus is perfect. All buses have idiosyncratic quirks. But the Proterra buses are insane rattle traps. They sound like the chassis/body is about to fall apart when driving. Passengers complain about the suspension. If I were to estimate the overall grade that operators in our company would give these Proterra electric buses, it would be C+ at best.
I agree with Barry N. We have had ours for about 8 months. They rattle so much that brackets are starting to break inside the bus. Upon examining these brackets and the way they are attached they are very poor quality and workmanship. I’m sure we’ll see more to come. Another issue I have with them is the placement of the lights for the passengers. I drive at night so these lights have to be on when people are in the bus. They create a nasty reflective glare on the windshield. We have put blue tape on them, which helps a little, but it can get very distracting when you see the back of the bus in your windshield. There are some other minor issues but the overall driver cockpit experience is very disappointing. Not driver friendly. I do like the electric motor and the hill brake.
In August 2023, Proterra filed for bankruptcy. In 2021 alone, the Biden Administration gave about $6 billion in subsidies. Since 2016 when Duluth bought these, the total subsidies are likely much greater. Even with all these subsidies, electric busses, and likely all large electric vehicles, have been failures. Particularly when they cost twice as much as other buses.